Oh, haha…I think I took the date on this page (http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/armm/) too literally.

Have just bought Data Analysis Using Regression and Multilevel/Hierarchical Models to keep me going instead.

Good luck!

]]>Thanks for this. Out of curiosity, what is your field?

]]>Ha-Ha

]]>Those prices are for Regression and Other Stories at a local online bookseller.

]]>Thanks Bob76, I tried to make my comment reflect that the authors might have taken the high road using the words [just] from the chapter abstract, this _seems_ … but my concern was that they might have gone on the low road.

Raghu pointed out that was not sufficient and I accept that.

Your bringing out “There is a right way—and plenty of wrong ways–to bootstrap in any setting.” strongly suggests they took the high road. Thanks.

Cost benefit analysis given the two states:

They took the high road – authors or diligent readers get to respond – “they/we did take the high road” [you jerk].

They took the low road – maybe just maybe they will rethink [most with low probability but some declaring me a _methodologic terrorist_]

Regarding #3: I’m starting to see journal and grant reviewers in my field with some familiarity with the Bayesian approach. I notice that the field, for better or worse, is in the process of codifying “acceptable” Bayesian analysis in much the same way that may have been done for classical approaches many years ago. For example, most reviewers in my field insist that there are objectively “correct” and “incorrect” priors.

]]>Mark:

We have to write it first . . . ummm, I’m guessing the book will appear in 2022.

]]>Bozobrain:

You raise important points. One way to consider these is to set aside the Etzioni et al. book and consider our recent book, Regression and Other Stories, which is entirely from a Bayesian perspective—in it, we talk about hypothesis testing only to explain why we don’t like the idea—but most of it still looks like classical statistics, running regressions and looking at estimates and uncertainty intervals.

What’s going on here?

A few things:

1. I think the most important thing in statistical modeling is to understand the model you’re fitting. So our book is full of graphs of data and fitted models, explanations of the meanings of the coefficients, and so forth. Etzioni et al. seem to have a similar perspective.

2. As a teacher, you have to reach the students where they’re at. And, as a textbook writer, you have to reach the teachers where they’re at. We wanted to write a regression book, not a Bayesian regression book. That is, we wanted to reach some chunk the many thousands of students every year who learn “regression,” not just the handful who want to learn “Bayesian regression.” So we convey Bayesian ideas but in a way that we think will be acceptable and understandable to teachers who are not coming from that perspective.

3. As a community, statisticians and applied researchers continue to move in the Bayesian direction, but we’re not there yet. Even when we use Bayesian methods, I think we tend to use priors that are too weak (which, from another perspective, implies that they’re too strong, a point that we’ve discussed many times in this space). Regression and Other Stories is a step forward in that we use stan_glm which has weakly informative default priors. That’s a big step beyond no priors at all, but ultimately it’s not enough. Anyway, my point here is that it’s hard for our textbooks to go fully Bayesian when as researchers we don’t go fully Bayesian.

4. Regarding real-world research: we use Bayesian methods all the time! But for awhile there have been well-credentialed ignoramuses who’ve not wanted to know this.

To return to the Etzioni et al. book: I don’t think they’re promoting null hypothesis significance testing. I think they’re promoting standard statistical methods, but with a focus on modeling and estimation, not on testing. I recommend the book because I like a lot of what they say, and I think the book will be acceptable to many teachers of statistics in public health. Also I like that the book is short. Short counts for a lot. A teacher can assign the whole book to a class and still have time to cover a couple chapters of Regression and Other Stories or whatever.

]]>There is a larger issue here related to the disconnect between what many statisticians do regarding the methods the advocate and publish in statistics journals, and the kinds of methods that are actually taught to applied students, especially in the health sciences, and in regards to the kinds of methods applied in a consulting setting.

For example, I know statisticians who may call themselves “Bayesian” and even publish Bayesian-based journal articles and books. Further, they will deride the use of NHST as Gelman does. However, when actually teaching health students or actually engaging in applied, consequential research, it’s all frequentist and p-values.

Many health researchers (e.g. epidemiologists) will dismiss much of the “modern” thinking on methods research as simply fodder for statisticians to discuss among each other. Bayesian methods are seen as primarily for statisticians to impress each other with how fancy they can be, and the fact that these statisticians rarely utilize these approaches in “real-world” research is seen as evidence of the impracticality of these approaches.

With this in mind, I am surprised that such a prominent Bayesian statistician such as Gelman is promoting a book that, as far as I can tell, is entirely frequentist and promotes NHST methods. To be clear, I don’t expect Andrew to ONLY use or advocate for Bayesian methods, but this blog post leaves me confused as to what he believes regarding the extent to which these more forward-thinking, Bayesian-type approaches should be taught to students in the health sciences, and also how much and how often they should be applied to “bread-and-butter” health research.

]]>Thanks for the pointer to the article. I learned from it.

If you are interested in more detail about the textbook’s chapter on the bootstrap, go to Amazon, find the entry for the book, click on look-inside, and search for resampling. I did so and I was able to see about 2/3 of the text of the chapter. Their discussion concludes with the statement “There is a right way—and plenty of wrong ways–to bootstrap in any setting.” Given that the chapter is 15 pages in an introductory text, you cannot expect too much in the way of caveats.

Bob76

PS The following text shows that I need to get a life. The article is also 15 pages long. Page 135 of the textbook (an all-text page of the bootstrap chapter) has about 480 words; page 375 of the article you point to (also all text) has about 1010 words. So the article is, roughly speaking, about twice as long as the chapter.

It seems like unreliable sampling to judge the chapter from the chapter abstract. Unless, I suppose, the chapter abstract is a verbatim copy of the chapter.

]]>That is given the theoretical understanding of the bootstrap needed to ensure reliable analyses. For instance see – What Teachers Should Know About the Bootstrap: Resampling in the Undergraduate Statistics Curriculum https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4784504/

At least, in my career I have seen many statistician deliver highly unreliable analyses by using the bootstrap with little theoretical understanding of what it needs to do beyond blindly resampling the data.

]]>And…any update on when this is due?

[waiting with anticipation]

]]>The springer site says its $84 USD ($104 for the hardback). Where do see the $28.44 – .08 for a paperback???

]]>I note “Practical Data Science with R” is available as an audiobook! When can we expect competition in the form of “Regression and Other Bedtime Stories” with Andrew’s mellifluous recorded voice?

]]>Michael:

I can’t remember how Etzioni et al. handled hypothesis testing. I don’t think they did the full debunking like we did; it’s more that they didn’t emphasize it. Hypothesis testing is there, but they don’t treat it as foundational.

]]>Yup!

]]>